View high resolution
REVENGE OF COLONIAL COCKTAILS (part 2)
Welcome to the second installment (of the second installment) of “Colonial Cocktails,” the interview series that combines hard drinking with hard truths.
On the last day of IDFA, we interviewed San Fu Maltha. San Fu was born in Rotterdam in 1958 to a Chinese-Indonesian mother and a Dutch father. He is currently one of the most powerful film producers in the Netherlands, and is the force behind such high-profile Dutch films as Blackbook and Suskind. We sat down with San Fu to discuss WWII-era Nazi sympathizers in the Netherlands, and ended up talking about immigration, Geert Wilders, and the Dutch-Indonesian experience.
Eline Jongsma: How do you like the cocktail?
San Fu Maltha: It’s a bit strong, but I’ll probably get used to it. Right now since I really haven’t had a decent lunch it’s pretty stiff. But it’s okay. There’s a taste in it that… I don’t know what it is. What is it? It’s spices or something.
Kel O’Neill: This cocktail is called the Banda Massacre and it was created to commemorate the massacre of 90% of the population of the Banda Islands by a combined force of Dutch and Japanese mercenaries. But you know, 400 years later, it’s just a cocktail.
SFM: That’s why it has to be stiff. It has to be a strong drink.
KO: We were speaking earlier about the NSB, and specifically about Indos [mixed-race Dutch-Indonesians] who were members of the NSB. Why do you think that the Nazi ideology appealed to some of them?
SFM: I’m not sure if it was completely the Nazi ideology that appealed to them. It was a combination. They felt, specifically at the beginning of the war, that their country was going into the wrong hands. The nationalist element of the NSB, I think was the strongest element. They wanted to be a strong nation again.
If you read this article about Wilders which was written, he comes from this kind of family that has all of these elements to it. Because they were thrown out of Indonesia, and they were feeling really bad about it. And so that’s why this nationalist element in them was very strong. It’s not particularly that they hated Jews. Most of them were mixed-race!
The funniest thing, if you look at Dutch Indonesians, is that even within that community, they don’t look at each other and try to find out what they have in common. They look at how they differ and how white they are. So the whiter they are, the more powerful they are. They try so hard to belong to this white society. It’s a really difficult thing.
EJ: I’m actually a member of that Wilders family.
SFM: You are?
EJ: I found out because of this [Empire] project we’re doing, because a cousin of my dad is a geneologist. And I was looking into the Jewish heritage in my Indonesian family, and I stumbled onto this website where he writes about Wilders and this genetic link. And I thought it was so perfect that I was related to Geert Wilders. When I told my father, he said “yeah, Wilders is from the intolerant branch.” And I’ll never know if my father was serious when he said that.
SFM: I’m not sure either. I do know that when people feel free to talk, then you see that a lot of that generation feels linked in with what he stands for.
I know, of course, a lot of older Dutch Indonesians. And Wilders appealed to them. They were thrown out of their own country. Some of them were almost killed. Some of their families were killed. And even though they were fleeing for their lives, they had to pay for their own tickets. And now they feel this resentment to the new immigrants. It’s of course also natural. I’m not saying it should be this way, but it’s almost natural. In fifty years the ones who will be against that time’s new immigrants are the ones who are today’s new immigrants. It’s a game that goes on and on and on.
I mean, you can’t deny that in Holland there are some young Moroccans who cause a lot of problems. You shouldn’t deny it, but realise that there are also many others that cause problems, and it doesn’t mean that the first Moroccan who comes in is bad because of that. And it’s not strange that if you’re only used to meeting white people that the first time you meet somebody who’s black that you’re maybe even scared. The problems come when it’s the third time or the fourth time, when you find out that this guy’s actually really nice and really decent but you are still scared.
KO: There are people who say that the era of Wilders is over, and that The Netherlands has much important things to worry about than the issues that arise from immigration. Do you think that’s true?
SFM: I hope it’s true, but I’m not sure. It depends on how long this crisis will last, and if it will last long enough for people to actually realize that Wilders has added to our economic crisis. If we believe in economic growth, then we need immigrants.
EJ: Do you think if all the immigrants in Holland—starting with the Indonesians or Indo’s, leading up to the Moroccans—do you think if all of these people came from Scandinavia we would be having this conversation?
SFM: I think so. I once tried to explain this to my son. We live in a very white environment. We are actually the foreigners, in the city where we live. One time he said “Oh, there are so many Moroccan people living here.” And I thought this can’t be true. Because there are only 300,000 and something Moroccans living in Holland. So the chances that they live in this very white city are slim.
So I said, listen, you have to see it like this: if you take a city of 40 or 50,000 people, and you take 1,000 people from one small village in Limburg, which is in the south of Holland, and you bring them over, then those people from Limburg will act even more Limburg than the people there. Because they want to keep up the tradition. They will cluster. They’ll go to the same bar. They’ll create their own identity. And everything will go well until some person from this community will get something that the people from the other community wants. Could be a woman, a job, anything. Then the problems will start.
Don’t forget that a couple of hundred years ago, when a lot of Dutch people immigrated to England, it was on the front of an English newspaper: “These awful Dutch, they take our jobs and they have bad culture and they don’t adapt.” They were talking about the Dutch then.